CO129-027 - Public Offices - 1848 — Page 452

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R. M. Martin, Esq.

18 May 1847.

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prevent the English merchants carrying on the trade. That treaty, I believe, is not known at the Foreign Office; I obtained it at the India House.

3971. Was Mr. Crawfurd agent at the time it was made?-Mr. Crawfurd was agent.

3972. Was it between the King of Siam and the East India Company?— Yes. But it is held valid by the Crown of England.

3973. Would not it go to the Board of Control, under Mr. Pitt's Act?—Yes, the Board of Control, certainly. There is a treaty between the United States of America and Siam on the 3d of March 1843, which is an excellent treaty, and is in operation. A considerable trade is now carrying on under it. I will hand in a copy of this treaty. (The same was delivered in.

Vide Appendix.) 3974. Do the Americans carry on any trade with Sian now?They do, and are endeavouring to do so with Cochin China; and there is a large supply of sugars, &c. to be obtained in those countries.

3975. Have you any remarks to make upon the trade between Singapore and China?—I have some Returns prepared of the trade between Singapore and China for 10 years; it is an increasing traffic.

3976. What does it consist of principally-In what is termed Straits' pro- duce, which consists of rattans, rice, drugs, dried fish, birds' nests, and various commodities. These Returns have been prepared for me by the Governor of Singapore, which will illustrate the trade of China and Singapore; they con- tain both the values and the quantities. (The same were delivered in. Vide Appendix.) I obtained from the collector of customs at Bombay the official Returns of the trade between China, Bengal, and Bombay, giving the quan- tities and the values. These are the official Returns transmitted to me by the collector of customs at Calcutta and Bombay. (The same were delivered in. Vide Appendix.)

3977. Is the cotton trade increasing now from India to China?-The cotton trade has diminished. The Americans have been pushing the trade in raw cotton from the United States.

3978. Is that an increasing trade-It has fallen off the last year; but for several years it had been slowly increasing. The quantity of cotton twist that goes to China diminishes very much the importation of raw cotton from India. 3979. The quantity of cotton twist imported into China increases ?—Yes. 3980. From whence?-From England and from the United States. 3981. The supply of China itself, of raw cotton, and cotton twist, for its manufactures, is insufficient I should think so; the importations have increased very largely.

3982. Do not they grow very fine cotton there -Yes; but insufficient for the population. In the northern districts of China, the people are clad in sheep skins or cotton quilt.

3983. Have you any means of judging of the extent to which we might push the trade in woollens with China?If we had stations to the northward, they would be advantageous for that purpose. In the southern districts the people are clothed in cotton.

3984. Does not Shang-hai, by opening more communication with the north of China, enable us to send our woollens to the northward?-Yes; but not so well as if we had a station at Tientzin, the port of Pekin,

3985. Would not the Chinese object to our coming so near the capital?- The Tartar government might object to that, but there is in some of the Chinese statesmen a desire to cultivate relations with England.

3986. Have you prepared a report upon the tea trade?-I have prepared and submitted to Her Majesty's Government a report on the tea trade. On proceeding to China, it was stated to me, that any information which I could collect, and any reports which I could make, would be acceptable to Her Ma- jesty's Government, and I prepared this Report and this Table, a copy of which beg to lay before the Committee. (The same were delivered in. Vide Appen- dix.) I should state that I have the misfortune to differ from the opinions which have been promulgated before this Committee with reference to the reduction of the duty. The evidence of that Table is to demonstrate that the tea consumption has increased in this country irrespectively of the duty levied by the Government. In the last five years there has been an increase of 10,000,000 of pounds, therefore, showing that it is not the rate of duty which impedes the consumption. If the Government could afford to give up a portion

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of the 5,000,000 7. of duty levied upon tea, it would be an experiment; but I do R. M. Martin, Esq. not believe it would reduce the price of tea, or benefit the commerce of the country.

18 May 1847.

3987. Would it not increase the consumption of tea?--I do not think it would. I think tea is a very peculiar article as to its consumption; that it is out of the category of sugar and other commodities, and that mere cheapness of price will not cause an increased consumption. I am prepared to offer evi- dence to show that in different countries in Europe, where tea at one time was largely consumed, yet though no duty was levied, the consumption entirely fell off.

In the United States

3988. Owing to what causes?-Change of taste. latterly there has been no duty, and the consumption of tea has not increased in any proportion whatever; and therefore the duty, which must be maintained by the Government for its revenue, may as well be levied on tea as on other commodities. I, for one, would rather see the people of this country possessed of the means of obtaining malt liquor free than tea cheap; it would be more beneficial to the working classes to have beer cheap than to have very cheap tea. I consider the excessive use of tea injurious. In the case of our factory population living on vegetable diet, the using tea largely produces a very deleterious effect upon them.

3989. Have you any other observations to offer upon our trade with China? -Not beyond this; that it would be exceedingly advisable for Her Majesty's Government to dispatch a mission to China for the purpose of obtaining a modification of the treaty, perfect freedom of intercourse, and the opening of other ports to the northward.

3990. And you believe that such an attempt would be successful?—I believe that if properly conducted it would be highly bencficial, and would be met with a feeling, if not of very cordial amity, yet at least of a desire to hold friendly intercourse with us.

3991. Sir G. Staunton] Do you consider that the present decay of trade at Hong Kong arises from unavoidable circumstances, or that there is any change of system which the Government could adopt that might restore it to a state of prosperity ?—I have no desire to avoid giving an answer that question, inas- much as I think there have been strong expressions against the existing mode of government in Hong Kong. I believe that the Honourable Baronet who is at the head of Her Majesty's government in China, is a gentleman of great intelligence, of good business habits, and not indisposed to carry out the most beneficial measures for the interest both of the government he represents, and of the community over whom he presides; I think the difficulties that have arisen have been difficulties arising rather from the nature of the place, than from the measures adopted. I very much regret that Sir John Davis did not more directly look in the face the very great difficulties which he had to contend with, instead of endeavouring by a system of taxation and legislation to raise up the place to what was expected. I think it has been unfortunate for himself, and has caused a great deal of the disappointment that has ensued. I entertain for Sir John Davis in many regards a respect, and though I had the misfortune to differ with him upon the question of opium, and was compelled to resign my position in Her Majesty's service because I was refused by him six months' leave of absence, I think Sir John Davis under other circumstances would have made a good governor.

3992. Supposing that in raising the present revenue he acted under instruc- tions from home, you do not see how a similar revenue could be raised in any other manner more satisfactorily to the colony-Had the Governor used his discretion in representing that it was not possible to raise a revenue without diminishing the commerce or injuring the merchants in their endeavours to make the place more available for trade, I think he would have exercised a sound discretion. It was an endeavour to realize the representations which had been made. For instance, Her Majesty's Government were informed that Hong Kong would be the Carthage of the east. In another communication they were informed that it would have a population equal to ancient Rome. On another occasion, Governor Davis informed Lord Stanley that he believed Hong Kong would ultimately supersede Canton; and the constant endeavour to realize those expectations led to a continued system of taxation, an unfor- tunate desire for legislation, and an unnecessarily expensive system of govern-

ment.